The whole school has now been officially invited to contribute to the documentary, now in production

AT LAST!  Some spirit from the Steiner School!  A brave young lady from the High School, (founded on the anniversary of the illegal fixing and axing of our several contracts,) came and talked to us.  We were able to face one of the young people we have been deemed to have been a danger to, basically as a national response to us following school policy. 

A school policy that was too challenging for our eldest daughter’s class.  Hide it how you will.

We Salute you, brave woman! What a shame it had to fall to such a one to show spirit enough to ask the questions.

Our peaceful democratic protest was of course too challenging for some.  What follows is part of an anonymous comment we received yesterday about what happened when we stood outside the school at the beginning of the Open Day on Wednesday:

"it was extremely unpleasant to see one of the high school students -- a girl --reduced to tears of frustration by big bullies such as yourselves. The commonest thing she was heard saying is that despite the fact that she is human too, people like yourselves condensended [sic] her, did not give her a chance to explain herself, and interrupted."

(The rest of the comment is just personal slander and attack, and it is strange that anyone would think we would publish that.  Let anyone claim that is one-sided!  There is a difference between having an informed opinion and displaying raw aggression without one.)

It's absolutely shocking to think that we would treat a brave young woman who approached us alone and unarmed like that. All right thinking people should be outraged. 

But it is true?

We could “tell” you what happened when this teenager came to talk to us, but then we'd be accused of lying or distorting the truth, so instead, we will let her speak for herself: below is the complete and unabridged transcript of the entire 12-minute conversation we had with this young person. 

A transcript cannot obviously reproduce the feelings and intonations used, but note that both parties were civil throughout, and again we want to affirm that this person’s demeanour was courageous and polite, which is more than can be said for many of the adults around the school.  We also acknowledge that it is upsetting to make such confrontation with any protesters and also, which must be said, to realise that you may not have been told the whole truth by adults that you trust.

Although it would have been quicker to just put up the recording, we have transcribed it to protect her identity.  In contrast to those who apparently have no problem attacking a small child in public using the internet as a veil, we do believe that children should be protected, even if it means more work. 

We make no apology, however, for recording any and all contact with the school or connected people.  This video will show you part of the reason and the sheer volume of untruth we’ve heard from the school about us, our children, and their own actions, is the other part.  

Look how quickly we’ve needed proof of what happened on this occasion!  Should this proof be doubted or should it be claimed that this is an inaccurate account of our conversation, we will make further consideration of the balance of others’ privacy and the need for truth. At any rate, if this young woman, or her parents want to listen to it, and they can maintain a civil bearing, we will be happy to make it available to them.

Read on.

------------------- Start of Transcript of 11th of August 2010 Meeting -------------------

Girl: What's going on?

Angel: Do you not know about us?

Girl: Yes, I've certainly heard about you.

 Angel: So you know that we're peacefully, democratically protesting, as is our right in law.

Girl: [chuckles] Peacefully.

Angel: This is peaceful, we're not doing anything...

Steve: What are we doing? What isn't peaceful?

Angel: This is peaceful. It's what we're allowed to do.

Girl: Sorry, sorry, sorry. Can you explain to me what the problem is? Because i've only heard a little bit about it.

Angel: Well there's a website…

Girl: Yep.

Steve: I'd be interested to know what you've heard actually.

Angel: Go and have a look at it.

Girl: No thank you …

[traffic noise, inaudible conversation]

Angel: We made a website so people can find out what's going on, so we're here to…

Girl : Right. What do you think is going on? Just tell me, because I've only heard one side of the story.

Steve: I'd appreciate it if you could tell us what you heard, actually.

Girl: Pardon?

Steve: I'd appreciate it if you could tell us what you heard. That would be really cool.

Girl: I've heard that you guys are taking things a little too seriously, and a bit immaturely in your reactions.

Steve: That's interesting. ok.

Girl - Because… that's, that's my opinion.

Angel: Would you start with the bit where out children were thrown out of the school from one day to the next...

Girl: Yeah I'm sure.

Angel: Are you going to get to that, are you?

Girl: Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Angel: Because that actually is the thing that happened, that's why we're here.

Girl: Yeah. OK, so… was it your children that were thrown out or was it you who were thrown out?

Angel: They weren't allowed to come here anymore. What do you think?

Girl: That's only because of your reaction though, isn't it?

Angel: So they say.

Girl: Ok, well…

Angel: So they say. What did we do?

Girl: Ok.

Angel: What did we do? We were immature?

Girl: Yes, you were very immature

Steve: Immature? ok.

Angel: What did we do that was immature?

Girl: Your anti-steiner school site, actually, when...

        [NB: we missed that comment at the time, but look at our site carefully: it isn’t anti-steiner… unless asking questions is in fact anti-steiner - and by the way, what do you call a regime that you are not allowed to question?]

Angel: Hang on a minute, that was after we got kicked out!

Girl: Well… [inaudible due to traffic noise] … I'm at a school where I am learning what I want to learn and…

Angel: That's really good for you…

Girl: Thank you.

Angel: Our kids were thrown out, and then you felt we set up the site before we were thrown out, why did you think that? That's interesting.

Girl:  [inaudible due to traffic noise] 

Angel: Do you think people have the right to protest against something that they feel is illegal? If we could afford to prove it, we would have sued the school into the ground.

Girl: Ok. All right. What is illegal?

Angel: To throw children out without any warning. There's procedures. They should have had… they had a meeting planned with us on the very day  [inaudible due to traffic noise]… they didn't have the meeting. They couldn't…

Girl: So what did you do that made them cancel the meeting?

Steve: They never told us.

Angel:  [inaudible due to traffic noise]  Do you use… are you allowed to use tools in the bush? Cutting bush?

Girl: Yeah.

Angel: How old do you have to be to use, like an axe?

Girl:  [inaudible due to traffic noise - although I recall her saying she wasn't in a position to know]

Angel: You've been at the school since you were knee-high to a grasshopper, haven't you?

Girl: Yeah.

Angel: So how old do you think… are 10 year olds allowed to cut bush?

Girl: I don't know. But what does that have to do with [inaudible due to traffic noise] ?

Angel: I'm just asking … [inaudible due to traffic noise] … people were left unsupervised in the bush with axes and things like that, then other children…

Girl: I'm sure they wouldn't have an axe.

Angel/Steve: Why not?

Girl:  Why would they have an axe? Where the hell would they get an axe?

Angel: They were making bush… bush huts. How would you make…

Girl: Ok. That's all right.

Angel: …a bush hut without an axe?

Steve: Yeah, that's all right.

Angel: Exactly. But if one child picked up an axe and threatened another child with it, that child…

Girl: Did that happen to your daughter?

Steve: Yeah.

Girl: Threatened her with an axe.

Angel: Yeah.

Girl: Are you sure you're not taking this a little too seriously?

Angel: Are you sure you're not failing to hear what I say? 

Girl: I am listening.

Angel: Should we not believe our daughter?

Girl: No. I agree, you should definitely believe her.

Angel: Exactly. And we do. And the school didn't like that and they threw us out because we told them about it, because if it came out that there was an axe at the school and that that happened, what so you think would happen to the school? They didn't want this to come out and they threw us out. That's the truth. Would you think we'd be standing here if it wasn't? No. We've got better things to do.

Girl: I'm sure you do, which is why I'm curious as to why you’re still bothering.

Angel: Because it's not ok. But now, the government is going to legislate…

Woman Passing: Good morning.

Steve: Good morning.

Angel: … for private schools to change the law and they're not going to put any law in place to look after the welfare of children in private schools. None.

Girl: Maybe you haven't noticed, but no children have exactly died here.

Angel: Not yet.

Girl: [sighs]

Angel: Do you think it's … listen, I don't know if you even remember my kids, so what does it matter to you?

Girl: That is that you're boycotting my school.

Angel: We're not boycotting it, we're just …

Girl: You're interested in the lower school. I'm interested in the high school. Leave my high school alone!

Angel: We haven't done anything to your high school. We're just pointing out what this school did to our children.

Girl: But you don't… the high school is completely separate to the lower school.

Angel: What date did they get registration on, the high school?

Girl: hmmm.

Angel: June the 8th. What was that the anniversary of? Do you know?

Girl: No.

Angel: That was the date they threw our children out. We just want to point it out.

Girl: ohhhh gosh.

Steve: It's a coincidence, but still.

Girl: It is a coincidence.

Steve: Yeah, but still.

Angel: So what?

Girl: So what does the high school have to do with your child, apart from the anniversary that your child got thrown out?

Steve: It's just the school, you know.

Girl: Yeah. OK.

Angel: Because the authorities…

Girl: I think you should take this problem to the authorities.

Angel: We have.

Steve: We have.

Angel: There's no law to cover this situation in this country, and the government…

Girl: OK, well then obviously it's fine, isn't it?

Angel: No, it's not.

Steve: So it's ok for kids to hit each other and nothing to happen then? It's alright for the bully to stay at the school whereas the kid who gets hit is kicked out. Are you saying that you're happy with that situation?

Girl: Are you saying that… has this ever happened to your daughter before?

Angel: Yes, it happened all the time here, in the classroom, …

Girl: In other schools?

Steve: No.

Angel: Not like that.

Steve: Not like that, no.

Angel: Did you know that New Zealand has got the worst bullying of any, statistically, of any Western country in the world?

Girl: That's terrible.

Angel: It's the truth.

Girl: That's terrible. So, if you have a problem with this school, I think that maybe you should just leave rather than…

Angel: We haven't. We haven't... [inaudible]

Girl: Where's your daughter now?

Angel: Well, we're not going to tell you that.

Girl: Ok. I'm sorry. I didn't mean for you to take it like that.

Angel: We're not going to tell anyone here that, or anything like personal details like that.

Girl: OK.

Angel: Do you want to know whether she is still affected by what happened to her here?

Girl: Yeah.

Steve/Angel: Yes

Angel: She is.

Girl: Is she…

Angel: Yes she is.

Girl: She is in her new school? She is affected the same …

Steve: No. No, no. She's...

Angel: She's been at the school for half a year, yes. No, she's not affected in her new school. She's affected by what this school…

Angel/Steve: … did to her.

Angel: Is that right?

Girl: Is what right?

Angel: Is it right that a 10 year old girl should not be able to get to sleep till midnight, every night because of what a school did to her when they're all just carrying on, and apparently we're immature? How immature is a school manager that won't talk to a set of parents that have got a reasonable complaint about the amount of bullying going on… did you think we're the only ones? Do you think we're the only parents?

Girl: Don't worry, I got bullied when I was little.

Angel: Do you think we're the only… I know. Your mum told me… Do you think we're the only people that this has happened to that are prepared to stand up and do something about it?  

Girl: Who else is? Who else is, because I don't see any.

Angel: You'll see. You'll find out.

Girl: Ok.

Angel: They're not here, but you'll find out.

Girl: No, apparently they're not. Do you, or do you not have a restraining order?

Angel: Of entering the school?

Steve: Yeah.

Girl: Yes.

Angel: A Trespass Order.

Steve: A Trespass Notice.

Angel: Yeah! That's what they did to us, five minutes after we turned up to ask them why they'd illegally expelled our children, bang, the police. Is that mature? 

Girl: [giggle]

Angel: Is it mature?

Girl: Well did you go and start, what you're doing is you’re manipulating what children say, you're manipulating what the teachers say, you take out parts of what the teachers, of the teachers’ arguments and explanations, you post them on your website.

Angel: Well you tell the teachers to come and we will put an unexpurgated version of whatever they want to say,…

Girl: Unexpurgated? Is that your...

Angel: No cuts.

Girl: No cuts?

Angel: Yeah…  

Steve: We cut out the boring bits, but we don't take anything out of context.

Angel: If they want to explain why they threw the children out, we will stick it on the telly. We're here… We've got a letter to deliver to the school to ask people to…

Girl: Give it to me, if you've got a letter.

Steve: No, we're going to give it to somebody…

Angel: We're going to give it to Sharon.

Steve: …a grown up, if you don't mind.

Angel: People should know.

Girl: Well it might be a bit hard seeing as you're not allowed on the property.

Steve: Well they'll come and see us.

Angel: We'll give them a ring, ask her to come and get it.

Girl: All right.

Angel: Look I'm really sure… I understand why you're angry, but your anger is directed in the wrong place.

Steve: What did they tell you that we got our trespass notices for?

Girl: Hmm… I heard that… I saw and I heard that you've been right up to children with video cameras.

Steve: No, that's not true.

Girl: Went up to teachers with video cameras.

Angel: You saw us doing that?

Girl: I saw you certainly with a video camera talking to John Cole.

Angel: He's not a child.

Steve: And he asked to be interviewed.

Angel: And that was out here.

Steve: He was right here as well. He said "Can I be interviewed?"

Angel: Is that why we got trespass orders, because we were right here?

Girl: Did you cut or did you not cut his video?

Angel: His video? Yes I did because it was boring.

Girl: Boring.

Steve: But the questions asked, and the answers …

Girl: I'm sure it wasn't because it was boring. I'm sure it's that you wanted your side of the picture to be put forward and you want to manipulate his words.

Steve: Listen…

Angel: He said that the justification for throwing three children out without warning…

Girl: I am interested.

Angel: ..."this is a private school, isn't it?" Have you seen the video?

Girl: No.

Angel: Go and have a look at what he said. It was outrageous. It's the most outrageous thing…

Steve: And that was not edited. If you think that we cut it because we asked a question, and then we cut out, and put his answer to something else, no, we didn't do that.

Girl: No. I'm sure you didn't do that. But I'm sure there are some things he said …

Angel: But you'll be told we will… you'll be told we have.

Girl: … justification… No. I haven't been told that.

Angel: No, you will be. When our programme comes out, you'll be told that …

Girl: A programme. You're going to make a TV series?

Steve: A documentary.

Angel: We're making a documentary about the law on private schools in New Zealand.

Girl: Ok.

Angel: To protect children. All children at private schools, not just us, because what we've found out is that there is no protection in law, at all. And the government is re-legislating and they're not gonna put any in. Even though they were advised to do so, they decided "no, we're not gonna make a law"…

Girl: Are you talking about violence between children or violence between teacher and child?

Angel: Any kind of violence. Any protection at all.

Girl: I'm sure that there's…

Steve/Angel: No, there isn't.

Angel: Trust us.

Girl: Between teachers and children? I'm sure that teachers cannot hurt their children.

        [NB: This is an interesting question, Under the Health and Safety Act, teachers, as employees have to take all reasonable steps to prevent foreseeable hazards from harming children or anyone else on the premises.  The Trustees are responsible for making sure that teachers do this. A bullying child is a foreseeable hazard for a teacher.  A bullying teacher is a foreseeable hazard for a Trustee.  In our case there were both. In both cases the burden of proof falls on the complainant and causation is a very high hurdle.]

Angel: There are no… there is no provision in the law to protect the welfare of children in private schools. Unless you get like beaten up really badly and you can prove that that damage was caused by that beating up. And you've got to do that privately, you've got to take a private lawsuit. Which would cost you probably $40,000. If we had $40,000 to play with, we wouldn't be here, because we would have sued the school and that would have shut it really quickly. Because you cannot allow children to behave like that …

Girl: Hang on a second. Hang on a second. Hang on a second… Are you trying to shut down the school?

Angel: No.

Steve: No.

Girl: No?

Angel: No, but that's what would happen because of their inefficient running of the school, that is… that would be the result of it.

Girl: All right, I don't see… what's your aim here? Are you trying to tell everyone that…

Angel: We’re telling… you've got an open day… we have committed in our website to informing parents who don't know the school what happened to our children because the same thing could happen to them... It could.

Girl: Funnily enough it hasn't happened to anyone yet.

Angel: Maybe it hasn't.

Steve: No, but we know quite a few people who left because of the bullying, because nothing was being done, and the management wasn't caring.

Angel: Most people in New Zealand don't stand up for things. Which we're doing. You can't compare us and say, "you know, maybe it's better to just walk away". We feel, that to walk away from a situation that we know to be dangerous…

Girl: It's a whole year! Haven't you got something better to be doing with your time!?

Steve: We do. Plenty.

Girl: Well, why are you here then?

Angel: Because it's not…

Steve: Because it's not right.

Angel: Because that's the reasons that we're saying here.

Steve: Is it right to kick a family out because their kid gets bullied and the parents ask management to deal with it and they don't? Is it right?

Angel: Is it right? If is was true, would it be right?

Girl: Is it right?

Angel: If it was true?

Girl: If it was true? Then it would not be… it would be right.

Angel: Why?

Girl: No... It would be right for you to have this reaction if it was true.

Steve: Right. OK.

Angel: Well that's why we got the reaction.

Girl: Ok. well, … hmmm… I'm still very unimpressed that you've taken it out on the high school.

Angel: That's because it's an open day.

Steve: It's an open day for the high school.

Girl: I know.

Angel: Maybe we should come back on Friday when it's a Kindie day.

Girl: Ok… No!

Angel: But we're here today, you know. This is the day we've decided to do it… We could come back on Friday.

Girl: Do you feel embarrassed?

Angel: It's hard to do this.

Girl: It must be.

Angel: It's hard to do it.

Girl: Yeah… Do you feel embarrassed? 

Angel: What do you mean, ashamed?

Girl: Yeah… [inaudible due to traffic noise] … stupid?

Angel: It's the school that should be ashamed.

Steve: Why stupid?

Child [reading a sign] "Still seeking justice for our axed children" !

Angel: They were axed.

Girl: Your axed children! Aw god! [laughing] ... So tell me, does your daughter have any lasting, sustaining axe wounds? Is there any mad axe children?

Angel: Axe… axe means to get rid of. To axe, is to cut, doesn't it, to get rid of.

Girl: Yes, it does.

Steve: It's also a play… a witty play on words, because she was threatened with an axe…

Arriving Teacher: We need you in class. Come on.

Steve: Have a good day.

------------------- End of Transcript of 11th of August 2010 Meeting -------------------